Gay Marriages - The Step-by-Step Decline of Western Civilization

Gay Marriages - The Step-by-Step Decline of Western Civilization



(Islamweb) By Lynn Jefferies


When humans make laws, it is inevitable that there will be grave flaws and far reaching consequences. Everybody seems to want rights, no matter how diverse or perverse. In the Supreme Court's 2002-2003 term, Lawrence et al v Texas handed down a law that will change the course of America's future: "Gays are entitled respect for their private lives." Based on the 14th Amendment of the Constitution, gays have the right to privacy: "The State cannot demean their existence or control their destiny by making their private sexual conduct a crime."

It is thought that in the last hundred years this ruling along with Roe v Wade will have the strongest impact on society. The moral effect of this ruling will probably not be felt for years. It is like opening a can of worms. First the right to privacy, then gay marriages, gay adoption, gays in the military and gays in the work place. It is "said" that six out of ten Americans believe that homosexual sex between consenting adults should be legal.

Only one of the Justices openly showed disgust for the law. Justice Antonin Scalia read from his bench "taking sides in the culture war" and that the rest of the Justices have "largely signed on to the so called homosexual agenda." But if it is true that six out of ten American's and six out of nine Supreme Justices condone homosexual behavior, then God has forewarned us that we are truly in serious trouble.

"The people of Lut (Lot) rejected (his) warning. We sent against them a violent Tornado with showers of stones (which destroyed them), except Lut's household: thus do We reward those who give thanks. And (Lut) did warn them of Our Punishment, but they disputed about the Warning." [The Holy Qur'an (Surat al-Qamar 54:33-36)]

We have been warned that this will truly be the decline of any civilization. From both a Biblical and Jewish standpoint this is truly perversion. Prophet Lut was sent as a messenger to one of Abraham's neighboring communities. These people, as the Qur'an tells us, practiced a perversion unknown to the world until then.

Allah states in the Qur'an: "The people of Lut (Lot) rejected the messengers. Behold, their brother Lut said to them: "Will ye not fear (Allah)? I am to you a messenger worthy of all trust. So fear Allah and obey me. No reward do I ask of you for it: my reward is only from the Lord of the Worlds. Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, and leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)!" They said: "If thou desist not, O Lut! Thou wilt assuredly be cast out!" He said: "I do detest your doings." (Surat ash-Shu'ar'a 26:160-168)

Civilizations who openly practice homosexuality will surely become losers and will be punished severely by Allah. Though homosexuality has been practiced by a minority of people since the people of Lut, the pursuit of open gay rights really started in 1895 when a man by the name of Oscar Wilde was convicted for "gross indecency between males." Years later, the first formal gay activist group was founded in Chicago and in 1969 came the "birth of the gay rights movement."

1975 was the "coming out of the closest" year, wherein Former NFL player Dave Kopay announced he was gay. In 1977 Anita Bryant worked very hard with conservatives to block gay rights. In 1986 the Supreme Court ruled in Bowers that sodomy is a crime. In 1993 the U.S. military adopted the "don't ask, don't tell" policy for gays. 1993 hosted one of the most visible acts of gay activism, wherein gay-rights supporters marched on Washington. In 1996 the "High court" ruled that gays have equal rights under the constitution. In 2000 Vermont couples were allowed to form "civil unions." A fight for banning gay adoption was fought in 2001, and finally in 2003 an openly gay Episcopal bishop was elected in N.H.

As we can see, gays were first given rights under the "right for privacy act." This is the problem with man-made laws: they are fallible, open for interpretation, and without God dictated morals are changed to suit the times. Ibn Al-Qayyim wrote: "The punishment of the evil-doer (homosexual) will be greater than the punishment of an adulterer for the reason that all of the Companions are unanimous on it and that its degree of prohibition is greater and its mischief is far reaching. It is for this reason that the grave punishment sent to the Ummah (Nation) of Lut by God was not given to any other Ummah."

Allah has warned mankind that there is no change in Allah's laws: "They swore their strongest oaths by Allah that if a Warner came to them, they would follow his guidance better than any (other) of the Peoples: But when a warner came to them, it has only increased their flight (from righteousness) -- On account of their arrogance in the land and their plotting of Evil, but the plotting of Evil will hem in only the authors thereof. Now are they but looking for the way the ancients were dealt with? But no change wilt thou find in Allah's way (of dealing): no turning off wilt thou find in Allah's way (of dealing)." (Surat Fatir 35:42-43)

The people of Lut enjoined a very high standard of living, similar to the people of Pompeii. Pompeii is known for its perversity. "The removal of Pompeii from the face of the earth by such a disaster was not purposeless. The historical record shows that the city was a center of dissipation and perversity. It was marked by a rise in prostitution to such an extent that even the number of brothels was not known. Male organs in their original sizes were hung on the doors of the brothels. According to this tradition, rooted in Mithraic belief, sexual organs and sexual intercourse should not be hidden but displayed openly."

Though Newsweek states that six out of ten Americans agree that homosexuals have the same rights as heterosexuals (if the statistics are accurate), many Americans are aware that the war against homosexuality is starting to spiral out of control. The National Review has written many articles against the growing "rights" of homosexuals and how their agenda is truly becoming more and more "in our face."

"The answer is that homosexual acts are not and never can be marital. Sodomy has been discouraged and prohibited, for basically the same reason that fornication and adultery were: to protect marriage as the principle or litmus line of sexual morality. Sex is for marriage, and marriage is (not coincidentally) the morally legitimate setting for bringing children into this world."

As Muslims, we know that homosexuality is wrong, illegal and punishable. It is a disease that rips the very fabric of society. Growing up as an American, I remember being taught that we should not be prejudicial against anyone's beliefs or actions as long as they are not hurting anyone else. Now, on TV it is almost impossible to find a series that doesn't incorporate at least one homosexual character let alone homosexual couple. The homosexual agenda is far reaching and can easily brainwash our children without even knowing it. Who knows when the day will come when orphans from Muslim countries will be adopted by "gay couples?" There is no escape from the punishment of this horrendous crime.

The following excerpt was published in the San Francisco Chronicle:

Marriage is not a civil right. Neither the federal nor the state constitutions confer such a status upon it. Marriage is a privilege granted and conferred by legislative bodies for specific reasons, including its impact on society. Special legal protections and favors have rightly been given to heterosexual, monogamous marriage because, unlike other kinds of human friendships or relationships, it has been considered to be uniquely necessary and uniquely beneficial to the perpetuation and well-being of society.

Though many of our enlightened, progressive contemporaries have tried to assert otherwise, the facts are now in: More than 30 years of a grand social experiment with "alternate" families has irrefutably demonstrated that the dissolution of traditional two-parent families has proven harmful to large numbers of children.

"Family diversity" in the form of increasing numbers of single-parent and step-parent families has not strengthened the social fabric, but rather, dramatically weakened and undermined society. The assumption that a new kind of homosexual "alternative family" will be an exception to this experience is totally unfounded.

Recently, the San Francisco Board of Supervisors, in a contemptuous and brazen attempt to turn the social order upside-down, foisted upon city residents a new civil ceremony for homosexual and lesbian "marriage." This attempt to institutionalize "alternative relationships" and to place them on an equal footing with heterosexual, monogamous marriage will do nothing but further the social disaster that already surrounds us.

Since its inception, the Christian church has consistently opposed all activities and conduct that destroy human life. History has demonstrated both the wisdom and the correctness of this position. The devastation of human life in San Francisco has only further proven the catastrophic results of abandoning this stance.

Tragically, anyone who would dare to express concerns about the disastrous consequences of these insidious forms of sexual behavior is thereby labeled a "homophobe" and a "bigot," and is taunted with cries of "shame! shame!"

Government should have a fundamental, compelling interest in the reproduction of society, the adequate socialization of individuals who constitute society and in seeing that children are directed toward healthy, productive lifestyles. The state, legitimately, is responsible for promoting these fundamental, social objectives - none of which is furthered by homosexual marriage.

The Qur'an reminds us all of this reality: "Do they not travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those before them? They were superior to them in strength: they tilled the soil and populated it in greater numbers than these have done: there came to them their messengers with Clear (Signs). (Which they rejected, to their own destruction): It was not Allah Who wronged them, but they wronged their own souls." (Surat ar-Room 30:9)

When "man made laws" override God's laws, civilizations can only expect destruction. Despite the fact that thousands of years have gone by, and places, technology and civilizations have undergone many changes, not much has changed in the aforementioned social structures and the etiquettes of the unbelievers. As we have emphasized above, a certain part of the society in which we live has all the qualities of the people described in the Qur'an.

Just like Thamud who gave short measure, there are also a great number of forgers and swindlers today. There exists a "homosexual community" that is defended whenever the occasion arises, and its members do not fall short of the people of Lut in whom sexual perversion had reached its peak. A great part of society is made up of people as ungrateful and rebellious as Saba, as unthankful for the wealth endowed to them as the people of Iram, as unsubmissive and insulting towards the believers as the people of Nuh, and as heedless to social justice as 'Ad.

Allah warns us: "We destroyed generations before you when they did wrong. Their messengers brought them the Clear Signs, but they were never going to believe. That is how We repay evildoers. Then We made you their successors on the earth so We might observe how you would act." (Surat Yunus 10:13-14)



Tuesday : 02/12/2003

HOMOSEXUALITY THE COST TO SOCIETY by MUHAMMED A. ASADI

Of all topics most popular in today's media, issues concerning homosexuals and homosexuality in general top the list. Homosexuality is generally defined as a sexual relationship between partners of the same sex. Debate concerning its causes and consequences has been going on for many centuries and almost in every period in human history. However, never before in human history has it been granted such wide scale acceptance in western society as it has now. The question that I seek to answer in this paper is whether such wide scale acceptance should in fact be granted to homosexual behaviour? Is such behaviour rational, scientifically functional or is it actually detrimental to the high level of civilization that we've achieved?

I) THE SCIENTIFIC PERSPECTIVE:

Scientifically speaking, sex is a means to an end. The end being the propagation of the human race. This end can never be fulfilled by sex between males (in the case of gays) or between females (in the case of lesbians). Therefore, the general conclusion is that homosexuality is irrational and illogical.

If we consider the construction of the bodies of the male and female, what is noticed at once is that the construction of a body of a male (the ***** and the anus- i.e no vagina) does not accommodate having sex with another male. Nor does the construction of a body of a female (no *****, a vagina) accommodate sex with another female. What is obvious to common sense is that the construction and location of specific sexual organs in the bodies of a male and a female accommodate sex between a male and a female and not among members of the same sex. Therefore, the conclusion once again is that homosexuality is an unnatural and an irrational behaviour.

The case with birth control is different to the "cause effect" argument above. Birth control is simply the further delaying or prevention of a naturally occurring delaying process. The egg (ovum), which when fertilized develops into a zygote, which then eventually develops into the fetus, is released in the female's body in a specific period of time and pregnancy is caused only if a sperm fuses with the egg in that specific time period. If the egg is not fertilized during that period, then the cycle in humans ends in menstruation (Encyclopedia Britannica, vol 26, Macropaedia 701-703)

II) THE PSYCHOLOGICAL PERSPECTIVE:

It was clearly recognized by experts who were objective and unprejudiced, that psychologically speaking homosexuality is an abnormal behavior. However large scale lobbying by homosexuals and certain psychologists brought in biases into this scientific field of inquiry and hence the truth got masked and the results are stated below:

"Before 1973 the DSM listed homosexuality as a sexual disorder. Protests by gay activist groups and many psychotherapists eventually led to its elimination from the manual as a sexual disorder per se, but the DSM did retain a category called "ego dystotic homosexuality- the feeling of extreme distress over one's homosexual preference". DSM III R has dropped even this category, and the issue of homosexuality is no longer mentioned (Comer 480)."

"Until the early 1970's the U.S psychiatric establishment classified homosexuality as a mental illness, but that designation was dropped amid increased political activity and efforts by homosexuals to be seen as individuals exercising different sexual preferences rather than aberrant personalities (Encyclopedia Britannica, vol 6, 31)."

Homosexuality is proven to be a learned behaviour according to experiments with clinical cases of intersexuality. At puberty, the individuals in question were "generally attracted to the sex opposite to their sex of rearing This suggests that sexual orientation is primarily established in post natal experiences (Encyclopedia Britannica, vol 27, 247)

There has however been great debate concerning the nature versus nurture question concerning homosexuality:

i) Brain Difference: The most recent one seems to indicate a certain difference in certain parts of the brains of homosexual people. What has however not been resolved is whether such difference in the brains was the cause or the effect of homosexual behaviour. Further many people in the sample studied had Aids and Aids in its later stages affects the brain. Therefore no strong conclusions can scientifically be drawn from such a study.

ii) Hormonal Differences: when hormones are artificially altered in female animal's bodies it makes them behave more like males even showing mating preference for members of the same sex. (Britannica, vol 27 ,248-249).

The same source however, also narrates that changing the hormone level postnatally does not mean that sexual preference for partners will change. The only thing that will change will be the arousal level.

Therefore, based on the above, I believe I can justifiably conclude that abnormal sexual preference even when it becomes "normal" to a particular individual due to abnormal circumstances like the above, can be controlled. If every male took his sexual desires towards every attractive female to their conclusion, you can well imagine the galloping rate of rapes in this or any other society. Just because certain individuals experience sexual desires towards members of the same sex, because something went wrong somewhere, does not at all mean that they should engage in homosexual behaviour or that their behaviour be accepted without question or search for a solution.

III) THE RELIGIOUS PERSPECTIVE:

There is absolutely no doubt that Christianity, Judaism and Islam, the three most widely embraced religions in America condemn homosexual behaviour in the strongest terms:
According to the Old Testament the Koran, the people of Lot were destroyed because they engaged in homosexual behaviour and were unrepenting and un accepting of God's admonishment (Holy Bible, Genesis chapter 13, 14, 18, 19; Koran 7:80-84; 4:16 etc)
In the book of Romans, in the Bible , Paul states:

"Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error (Romans 1:22-27)."

The above verse also condemns those who worship God in the image of a man i.e those who believe in the concept of a "God- incarnate".

IV) SOCIAL CONSEQUENCES:

i) Aids: Among the groups that have directly and indirectly contributed to the wide scale spread of Aids to even innocent patients like children are homosexuals and their practice of anal sex.

"There are specific behaviours that place people at a high risk for Aids. The first is anal sex which can cause rectal bleeding and thereby allow easy transmission of HIV. This practice is therefore extremely dangerous and, of course, the greater the number of sexual partners, the greater the risk. Anal sex is commonly practiced by Gay males in some cases with many sexual partners. For this reason about two thirds of persons with Aids are homosexual or bi-sexual males (Macionis 545)."

The above statistic of two thirds shows the trend in the spread of Aids a few years after it was recognized as a threat (1987). Now the pattern may have changed due to the initial wide scale spread of Aids which the above statistic suggests was directly or indirectly the result of homosexual behaviour among men22.

Aids results in many national cost problems too:
"....The cost of treating Aids already exceeds $150,000 per person and may rise further as new therapies develop....Added to the direct medical costs are the tens of billions of dollars in lost earnings and productivity...There is little doubt that Aids is a medical and social problem of monumental proportions (Macionis 545)."

GENERAL CONCLUSION

According to common sense, science, logic, psychology and religion - i.e all those aspects of present society, that have contributed to its civilization, homosexuality is irrational, illogical, abnormal and an immoral behaviour. Those who practice is should not be personally condemned but their behaviour should and solutions to their ills be found, and the free practice of homosexual behaviour be stopped, so that our society prospers. If clear and concrete evidence were indeed found in the other direction, I would gladly change my above conclusions. Therefore let our end be towards the truth!

"..What is left after the truth except error? How then are you turned away."(Koran10:32)

could'nt agree more....


I used to think if alot of dudes turned gay..that just meant more women for me...

:D

but then alot of women started to turn into lesbos in the US....

:mad:

"Gays" have been in every country throughout time (even the Ottomans for hundreds of years;) ) Keeping them "in the closet" just promotes them to marry and pass on their "gay genes":eek: If it was "socically acceptable" to make that choice they wouldn't marry the opposit sex just to "fit in" & the "gay gene" would just die out;)

Gay genes is fiction-as was shown on this forum.

And to 'pass on' gay genes to an offspring does seem a bit contradictory, don't you think?

I'm not crazy about gay relationships, in fact my sister is a lesbian and it bothers me because it's difficult to maintain a relationship at times when I'm frank about not buying into the agenda. That being said, as Malc noted the gay population isn't going to go away and I would rather have a gay couple, male or female, living next to me than any wild eyed nut whether they are religious or secular nuts. The overwhelming majority of the gays I have met, worked with and employed are quiet,law abiding, hard workers as well as being responsible and reliable. Unfortunately their public presentation is often the radical "in your face" types who want to force mainstream inclusion of their lifestyle. Hey folks, it's not "normal" from the heterosexual perspective but it can be tolerated if they are in principle good and decent people.

Really it is very simple. God will punish those that choose a homosexual relationship right? Why do we need to?

It goes back to the argument of REMOVING SIN by way of enforcing GOD'S LAW. You aren't going to change a homosexuals tendency. Something I think Muslims 1400 years ago already figured out. To take away temptation is not enough to 'cleanse' the soul.

Is there any historical evidence that "a people" who are racist and intolerant and prejudice of others continues to thrive among the massess today? Seems like all those "peoples" end up getting defeated and being very unpopular with human beings.

It seems to me that a society that is tolerant of people who do no harm to others might actually be a society that thrives into the future...

Why would being less tolerant and more bigotted and more racist be a sign of progress?

:confused:

Unbiased

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Originally posted by mohabdul
Gay Marriages - The Step-by-Step Decline of Western Civilization

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>>Why would being less tolerant and more bigotted and more racist be a sign of progress?<<

Because free people are hard to 'assimilate'.

Quote:

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Originally posted by kaphirgoyim
Really it is very simple. God will punish those that choose a homosexual relationship right? Why do we need to?

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Because such homosexual sex leads to a corruption of society, its morals and more recently, its health. But no one goes out looking for homosexuals if thats what your asking.

Leviticus 18:22: "You [masculine] shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

Lev. 20:13: "If a man lies with a male as a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them."

Quote:

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Originally posted by Sultan
Gay genes is fiction-as was shown on this forum.
And to 'pass on' gay genes to an offspring does seem a bit contradictory, don't you think?

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:confused: You believe gay guys really like women but are gay for social status or something? Gay genes: a case can be made both ways, neither has been proven yet. Contradictory only if not forced to live in the closet, marry the opposit sex and reproduce.

i dont think most people care why people decide to be fudge-packers

its immoral and deviant, to even discuss this more than ten seconds shows how immoral our society has become

even if god created them that way, so what

if god created a pedophile, does that give the pedophile justification for attacking children?
no, he would have to handle it

same goes for the freaks

a pedophile prays upon children who don't know any better.

that is not the same as two consenting adults having a relationship with each other. You really can't see that difference?

The idea of homosexuality is gross to me, but that does not mean I still can't have homosexuals as friends, and it does not mean that I have to hate them, and it does not mean that their existence will lead to the downfall of a society.
To say otherwise is just homophobia.

I'm sure that there are some homosexuals who are more moral than certain individuals on this forum (who shall remain nameless...but I'm sure you can figure it out).

Quote:

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Originally posted by AbuMubarak
i dont think most people care why people decide to be fudge-packers

its immoral and deviant, to even discuss this more than ten seconds shows how immoral our society has become

even if god created them that way, so what

if god created a pedophile, does that give the pedophile justification for attacking children?
no, he would have to handle it

same goes for the freaks

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Daym, they getten more n more dutty day by day.

two men can marry, but a man cant marry more than one wife

these people are just deaf, dumb, and blind

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AbuMubarak

i dont think most people care why people decide to be fudge-packers

its immoral and deviant, to even discuss this more than ten seconds shows how immoral our society has become

even if god created them that way, so what

if god created a pedophile, does that give the pedophile justification for attacking children?
no, he would have to handle it

same goes for the freaks

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AbuMubarak, you say its immoral to discuss this for more that 10 seconds, so why post on this subject. Also your first 2 posts were hundreds of lines long, I can read quickly but it took me more than 10 seconds.

My second point is homosexuality and gay marriages will lead to the downfall of western society, how can this be ? There have always been gays, even since greek and roman times, and earlier.


My third and final point is why do you have such a problem with gays ?
I am not gay, but I dont have a problem with gays, each to their own as long as you dont hurt other people.

I think you have a problem, maybe you are having confusing feelings about a male friend or work colleague, I dont know, whatever your problem is being obsessed with "fudge packers" is not healthy, try cold showers.

i havent posted on this thread in some time, someone clicked it up, i just made a comment

so now you think i am showing some repressed homosexual feelings because I am disgusted by the behaviour of some people?

so if i dislke murder, does that mean i want to kill someone?

if i dislike theivery, does that mean i am a closet kleptomaniac?

interesting logic you are using there

sounds kinda freudian to me

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Originally Posted by Tony

AbuMubarak, you say its immoral to discuss this for more that 10 seconds, so why post on this subject. Also your first 2 posts were hundreds of lines long, I can read quickly but it took me more than 10 seconds.

My second point is homosexuality and gay marriages will lead to the downfall of western society, how can this be ? There have always been gays, even since greek and roman times, and earlier.


My third and final point is why do you have such a problem with gays ?
I am not gay, but I dont have a problem with gays, each to their own as long as you dont hurt other people.

I think you have a problem, maybe you are having confusing feelings about a male friend or work colleague, I dont know, whatever your problem is being obsessed with "fudge packers" is not healthy, try cold showers.

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first i think you have nothing better to do than to jump at what he's saying because you yourself believe in what he condemns, and yes gays have been here for a long time actually since the time of abraham and what happened to them then they were taken to the highest heaven then flipped over and dropped, and even just recently they were not even tolerated had to hide who they were, "each to their own as long as you don't hurt other people"? the fhaggs are now spreading their beliefs into schools for small kids, there's this new book called my daddy's roommate :vomit: .. , and why you taking such an interest in Abu Mubarak Most of the people in these forums detest gay people, they openly said it in how many threads, just because youre in love with him doesnt give you the right to keep hatin :)

I think the step by step decline of huiman civilization can be ascribed more to
a) intolerance of what is none of anybody's business but the pple who want to marry
and
b) critical thinking ability being replaced by conspiracy, truth by assertion, and killing ppl who think differently.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AbuMubarak

two men can marry, but a man cant marry more than one wife

these people are just deaf, dumb, and blind

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They're like a flock of sheep...

Sorry I just NEEDED to add that. :P

^ true Griffth

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AbuMubarak

i havent posted on this thread in some time, someone clicked it up, i just made a comment

so now you think i am showing some repressed homosexual feelings because I am disgusted by the behaviour of some people?

so if i dislke murder, does that mean i want to kill someone?

if i dislike theivery, does that mean i am a closet kleptomaniac?

interesting logic you are using there

sounds kinda freudian to me

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Bro its not really the kuffz fault.

ppl who make their gods - men , beside their creator are more likely to end up morally confused and bankcrupt. it happened with the church, now its happening with the idolizing of hedonistic celebrity lifestyles and degenrate personalities that rule their countries and dictate what is right and what is wrong regardless of the vileness of it.

http://islamonline.com/cgi-bin/news_...service_id=838

Civilisations have risen and fallen throughout history and the same patterns will continue throughout whatever time humanity has left on this earth. I cannot, though, think of a single civilisation that can be said to have collapsed as a result of homosexuality. Civilisations collapse for a variety of reasons: they overextend themselves, lose coherence and run out of steam (eg the Roman Empire); they are overtaken by up-and-coming rival civilisations (eg the India of the Moghuls); they reach the limits of what is achievable within the parameters of their dominating philosophy and structures and they start to stagnate (eg the Ottoman Empire).

But because 5 or 10% of their population are in same sex relationships? Nope, can't think of any that fell for that reason.

The West certainly isn't collapsing. Perhaps it will eventually (or more likely it will reconfigure) but it won't be in our lifetimes and it certainly won't be because of homosexuality.

ged

the best speech is the book of Allah, and Allah says that many nations were destroyed because of their sins, mainly their rejection of the message of monotheism and secondly, because of the sins they were warned against

sodom and gomorah were one such nation, some say an italian city (i cant remember the name), others will add rome and its hedonism

so your statement that no civilization has been destroyed because of sins or homosexuality is not true when compared to the book of Allah

i was listening to some radio story, and some gays were saying that sodom was destroyed because they were inhospitable to their guests

so anyone can twist things to their advantage, i choose to follow the book of Allah for proper guidance

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AbuMubarak

ged
so your statement that no civilization has been destroyed because of sins or homosexuality is not true when compared to the book of Allah

...

so anyone can twist things to their advantage, i choose to follow the book of Allah for proper guidance

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I appreciate that you believe in The Koran but 4/5ths of the world does not and - as a non-Muslim - neither do I. Even if you could convince me that the destruction of Sodom and Gomorah happened exactly as stated in The Koran, it would still only be a single example among the hundreds of civilisations that have risen and fallen all over the world throughout history for reasons that had nothing whatsoever to do with homosexuality.

o ged

you overstate my mission

my job is not to convince you of anything, my job is to remind you of the oneness of god, and that muhammad is his messenger, that a great reward awaits those who believe in truth in this world and the next, and a terrible punishments awaits those who reject their Lord and His Messenger, in this world and the next

after that, the rest is up to you

Well, you can't "remind" me of something that I simply don't believe in. I believe in god, heaven, hell etc. about as much as I believe in elves. As a historian by profession, I prefer to stick to verifiable facts when it comes to topics like the downfalls of civilizations.

who CARES what some fictional book (full of made up fairy tales) says?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jarvis

Leviticus 18:22: "You [masculine] shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

Lev. 20:13: "If a man lies with a male as a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them."

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I often wondered why Muslims (or highly religious people in general) are SO OBSESSED with gays? A bit of insecurity perhaps? ;)

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Originally Posted by WHYNJ4ME

I often wondered why Muslims (or highly religious people in general) are SO OBSESSED with gays? A bit of insecurity perhaps? ;)

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.......:D

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Originally Posted by WHYNJ4ME

who CARES what some fictional book (full of made up fairy tales) says?

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really, nj, we cannot have you disrespecting the bible like that, it is improper for muslims to do it, and we do not believe in the bible either

not unless you were referring to the quran

is that what you were referring to?

neither book is to referred to in that manner at ummah.com

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WHYNJ4ME

I often wondered why Muslims (or highly religious people in general) are SO OBSESSED with gays? A bit of insecurity perhaps? ;)

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Highly religious people in general aren't obsessed with gays and homosexuality. I don't think you'll find much discussion of it in hindu or buddhist texts and some of the Japanese, Greek and Roman and other pagan gods were depicted personally engaging in homosexual behaviour. It seems to be a particular obsession of judaism, christianity and islam- the three abrahamic religions. There are differences between the biblical and quranic depictions of Sodom and Gomorrah and the christians threw out nearly every other forbidden behaviour in Leviticus, but homosexual behaviour seems to have remained as an obsession for all of them.

my son on holiday in france last year with his grandfather saw two men walking down the street, both dressed in high heel shoes, short skirts and lipstick one wearing a wig, complete with 5 o clock shadow and hairy legs etc "look grandad trannys!!" shouted my son he then asked "grandad why can men dress like that in the street, but my mum couldnt go into a school wearing her headscarf?" from the mouths of babes.....;)